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jadziedzic
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 151 Location: Nashua, NH USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: BBB Software Project |
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You may have seen my recent post on rec.games.pinball regarding BBB game software source code. Being a software type I'd like to fix some of the niggling (and nasty) bugs that exist in the game software. Unfortunately, Gene does not have possession of the source code (I've asked).
Mark Clayton has set up a Google Code project (http://code.google.com/p/bbbsource/) that contains the binary version of the game code. That can be disassembled into uncommented machine lanuage source code - although that's not exactly a correct statement, as there are lookup tables, etc., that also exist in the binary that won't necessarily be identified by the disassembler as data. Perhaps by collective collaboration we might be able to sort out enough bits of the code to consider small fixes - such as that annoying lamp #48 issue.
(This is assuming that the real source code never surfaces.)
Mark has done some excellent work setting up a starting point, and I would like to invite him to join this forum. Does anyone have strong objections against doing so?
Tony _________________ Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
BBB #39 |
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sellenoff
Joined: 07 Aug 2005 Posts: 101
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Re: BBB Software Project |
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jadziedzic wrote: | You may have seen my recent post on rec.games.pinball regarding BBB game software source code. Being a software type I'd like to fix some of the niggling (and nasty) bugs that exist in the game software. Unfortunately, Gene does not have possession of the source code (I've asked).
Mark Clayton has set up a Google Code project (http://code.google.com/p/bbbsource/) that contains the binary version of the game code. That can be disassembled into uncommented machine lanuage source code - although that's not exactly a correct statement, as there are lookup tables, etc., that also exist in the binary that won't necessarily be identified by the disassembler as data. Perhaps by collective collaboration we might be able to sort out enough bits of the code to consider small fixes - such as that annoying lamp #48 issue.
(This is assuming that the real source code never surfaces.)
Mark has done some excellent work setting up a starting point, and I would like to invite him to join this forum. Does anyone have strong objections against doing so?
Tony |
I offered to do the same to Gene as for improving the game based on the original source code, many times in the past, but have yet to get an answer.. Offer still stands obviously.. I'm very disappointed to hear he doesn't have it. I hope he's just mistaken.
Having looked at the binary source code when emulating the capcom system for pinmame, I've spent more time with that code than most others I would assume. Having said that, you couldn't pay me any amount of $ to reverse engineer all the code from the binary into source in order to make changes. The original code was definitely generated by a compiler, and not hand assembled, which makes it very difficult to follow, and without any clue how the modules fit into place, I think a person could spend years on this thing and get no where, unless they are an exceptional assembly language & embedded systems design guru.
I think we should make a full out effort to get the original source, surely someone has it. |
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jadziedzic
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 151 Location: Nashua, NH USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I agree, it would be incredibly tedious to try to resurrect code from the compiler/linker output. Source code would definitely be the way to go for anything other than the most trivial fixes.
I do believe someone (or several someones) has the source code (for the game as well as the underlying O/S), but the problem is in getting them to release it. That's one reason for the open post on r.g.p - hopefully someone might rise to that offer.
Even assuming that a CD shows up at my door, the next question is: does Gene *really* have rights to the Capcom software IP? I may try a call to Capcom's US headquarters this week and try to get in touch with someone in the licensing area; perhaps the mother ship has a copy of the source. _________________ Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
BBB #39 |
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latecomer
Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: BBB Software Project |
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sellenoff wrote: |
I offered to do the same to Gene |
You offered to do the same **to** Gene? Decompile him? No wonder he didn't respond! _________________ Vegemite Nick #123 |
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awarner
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 558 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: We need to leave Pfutz alone on this... |
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I e-mailed Pfutz as others did. This is a dead end. We'll need to NOT do this again. He's a really great guy, but I don't think he can help us. His e-mail was helpful in recommending Capcom or Gene but it sounded like he doesn't want to be bugged anymore. I apologized and told him I would alert y'all.
I'll check in other directions...
-Al- _________________ Pins and Vids #4 - A New Hoax DVD, Available NOW at www.pinsandvids.com for only $12.00 plus shipping. |
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jadziedzic
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 151 Location: Nashua, NH USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Small update:
I haven't had much time to tinker lately, but I did manage to figure out some of the basics of the lamp matrix control table. That allowed me to tell the software that lamp 48B (the credit lamp on the apron) really does exist, as well as change its name in the diagnostic menu to "CREDIT" (which, conicidentally, is the same length as "UNUSED").
Yeah, I know, big deal, but it was a fun diversion.
Tony _________________ Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
BBB #39 |
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CraigC
Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 209
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: |
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congrats. thats actualy pretty awesome.
-c |
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BBB94
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 407 Location: WI, USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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jadziedzic wrote: | Small update:
That allowed me to tell the software that lamp 48B (the credit lamp on the apron) really does exist, as well as change its name in the diagnostic menu to "CREDIT" (which, conicidentally, is the same length as "UNUSED").
Tony |
Cool, It's a start. |
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christian1
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 36 Location: Richmond, TX
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Tony,
Are you running the software that recognizes the credit light? If so, can it be made available to the rest of us?
Jon _________________ BBB #10 |
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jadziedzic
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 151 Location: Nashua, NH USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jon, at this point I do not believe that I have any legal right to distribute the modified software, given that the software is copyrighted. I do not know if Capcom still retains ownership of the software or if that was sold or assigned to Gene. With Gene out of commission for a while due to his surgery that question probably won't be answered in the near future. I want to contact someone in Capcom's licensing department to see if I can get a definitive answer from their point of view, but I haven't had a lot of luck getting past the receptionist yet
I *think* it would be legal for me to document how to patch the ROM image files (u1h_b19.bin and u1l_b19.bin); that would have to be a solely do-it-yourself arrangement, though. You'd need a hex editor program and a ROM burner in order to burn a new set of ROMs for your game. However, I have reservations about doing that much, as there's a chance the modified version could take on a life of its own, and I don't want to piss off any of the folks who might have close ties to the software.
Tony _________________ Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
BBB #39 |
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metallik
Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 99
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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You can easily make an IPS patch of the modification and distribute that with no worries. The patch will simply be an automated version of your "describe how to..." method. This method has been used frequently in the past to distribute translations and other mods for console ROM images. The IPS file you generate will be tiny (considering how little you modified the original ROM) and it will contain no Capcom copyrighted code.
As for whether this will "piss off" the people closely tied to the software, I couldn't tell you for sure, but I wouldn't think anyone would be too crabby about bug fixes...
This site offers an IPS generation utility (I'm sure there are others as well):
http://home.arcor.de/minako.aino/ipsXP/ |
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jadziedzic
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 151 Location: Nashua, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Larry, I'll look into that. No guarantees, and I'm WAY overloaded at work, but I *will* look into it. _________________ Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
BBB #39 |
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christian1
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 36 Location: Richmond, TX
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Tony,
Any update to the project? I wouldn't think anyone would get upset with the correction you have made.
Jon _________________ BBB #10 |
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jadziedzic
Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 151 Location: Nashua, NH USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't had much time to work on this project - busy season at work. I have been making some discrete inquiries about ownership of the software rights. I have to fix the checksum of the ROM image to reflect the changes my "missing lamp" patch made; hopefully I can do that in the very near future
By the way, anyone have a copy of IDA Pro they'd be willing to run the ROM image through? A decent disassembled source would be helpful. I'm still debating dropping the $$$ (yes, hundreds) to acquire a copy myself.
Tony _________________ Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic
BBB #39 |
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